‘I want to rethink music theatre’

At the annual general meeting of the Ruhrtriennale Freundeskreis, artistic director Ivo Van Hove spoke about the Ruhrtriennale 2025 programme, his new work I Did It My Way, his relationship to the music of Frank Sinatra and Nina Simone – and about his understanding of music theatre.

Ivo, how does it feel to be able to present the Ruhrtriennale 2025 programme to the Ruhrtriennale Freundeskreis?

Of course it's an incredibly exciting moment when you talk about the programm for the first time outside the team responsible for it. And you never know what the reactions will be. 

What are the central themes one will find in the festival this year?

I do not specify themes – the artists bring their own themes with them. Of course, there are themes that are very present today. Identity politics is still one of them – you can hardly avoid it. You can see this in my production I Did It My Way, for example, but also in other works, such as Robyn Orlin's ...how in salt desert is it possible to blossom..., which is about colonialism and the importance and difficulty of developing one's own identity.

Other important themes are violence and war – there is war going on in the world at the moment, and of course artists are dealing with that, too. One example is Guernica Guernica by FC Bergman. It's a world premiere and the play is still in development. There will be 80 extras on stage and not a word will be spoken. The story will be told only through images and it's about the impossibility of really grasping the essence of war.

The Ruhrtriennale's motto is Longing for Tomorrow and covers all three years of your artistic direction. You also associate it with a hopeful view of the future.

Yes, it's very important to me that there is hope. We are living in a very intense time – a time of great global upheaval, not just in Germany, but worldwide. And you can feel that many artists are struggling with how to deal with this. Of course we can't change the world with art, but we can talk about it – in a poetic way, not necessarily in an activist way. Although activism is also important: in my production, a character becomes an activist. It is important that such voices are heard in the theatre.

You just mentioned your new work.  What does the title I Did It My Way refer to?

I Did It My Way is Frank Sinatra's best-known song. He sang it very often, in very different interpretations and compositions. For him, it was his song, an expression of his identity. It stands for something very positive: ‘I did it my way, because that's what I needed to do’ – ‘I do it the way I think it's right, but without harming anyone.’

Why did you choose music by Frank Sinatra and Nina Simone? What connects you to their music? 

I've always felt a connection with Nina Simone. Her concerts were incredibly intense, you can still see that on YouTube today. She was just herself and didn't let herself be bent. Her music has stayed with me all my life.

Frank Sinatra was a later discovery, in the 70's, when I was young myself and his prime was already over. That's when I came across the album Watertown. It's not so well known, but Sinatra said it was his most personal album. It wasn't a great commercial success, but this album was the starting point for me. There, he doesn't sing with a big band, but very reduced – much more connected to his soul, his thoughts and his feelings. I find this search for new forms of expression in music very exciting from an artistic point of view.

How do you choose the songs and how do you turn them into a story?

The album is my starting point. I use different songs, but not all of them. This album starts with a couple – they've lived together for a long time and have two children. One day, at breakfast, the wife gets up, says goodbye and leaves. Without a fight, without a visible reason. The man is left alone, unable to do anything with his life. The woman, on the other hand, discovers what it means to be a Black woman in American society. She becomes, one might say, an activist.

You have already worked with Lars Eidinger, Larissa Sirah Herden sings the second leading role. Why this casting?

I worked with Sandra Hüller last year and wanted to develop this idea of musical theatre – where music is the narrative core – further. I know Lars from our work on Der Menschenfeind at the Schaubühne. That was a long time ago, but we've kept in touch. When this project took shape, I immediately thought of him. I knew he could sing. So I called him – and he said yes right away. Then I looked for a singer for the female lead – and that became Larissa Sirah Herden. This combination of acting and singing is very important to me for this work.

Another renowned artist, the choreographer Serge Aimé Coulibaly, is involved in the project. Why did you choose him?

Serge Aimé Coulibaly is a choreographer from Burkina Faso. Anita van Dolen, who curates the dance programme at the Ruhrtriennale, suggested him for this project. We got on immediately. He said he had already worked with the music of Nina Simone – I didn't know that but we understood one another immediately.

You once said that you wanted to broaden the view of what musical theatre can be today: To what extent does I Did It My Way tie in with the idea of music theatre that you already implemented in I Want Absolute Beauty?

For me, that's crucial. The Ruhrtriennale is known for music theatre – that's also the actual starting point for me personally. But music theatre is much more diverse than people often think. It's not just Bach or Penderecki, all this marvellous music. When Billie Eilish makes an album today, it's always a concept album. It's always about a thought, a feeling, a person.

The idea of concept albums already existed in the 70's, when it was really big. David Bowie did it, The Who, Elton John, really many artists made these kinds of albums in which a story develops over several songs. And I was wondering why these albums are never staged. I think we discovered that this music was made to be staged with I Want Absolute Beauty.

I Did It My Way premieres from 21 August as part of the Ruhrtriennale 2025.